Learn Baluchi Words... Discussion to Nako Ameeri @ baluchi_culture

[Zahida Raees Raji]

noutak baloch <ameerism@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Dear Walid:
I am of the view that instead of creating new words it is better we do more research for the revival of original words of Balochi language and let our children use technical terms of English which are being used internationally.

Balochi is an endangered language from Urdu and Persian.
Baloch are using Urdu numbers instead of Balochi in eastern Makran. We must work hard to bring awareness among Baloch not to lose their language. I met many people in Turbat in March 2004 none of them counted in Balochi.
From the Principal of the college to a man of street all counted in Urdu and used Urdu names of the days of the week instead of Balochi.

Thanks.

Ameeri
**********************


Garboni <wgarboni@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Dear Wj Ameeri,
 
I agree with you that we have many strong words in Balochi which have now been replaced.  We can dig them up and start introducing them if not using them commonly.
 
I put before a group of 15 or more Baloch and asked them to translated a sentence from Urdu to balochi. the sentence was "Balochoun ne Bhuk har'taal ki dhamki di hay".
 
Different words were suggested; "shodkoshi" suggested by Ismail Momtaz was the the most popular word for 'bhook hartaal'. and for dhamki we had 'toriseynat' paadtraap' beimtraap' and 'beyhaar'  beyhaar was the favorite one and selected to replace dhamki,  
 
So the translation was; Balochaan shodkoshiye beyhaar daatag.
 
Regards
Garboni

*********************************

[Zahida Raees Raji]

"Mohib A.Malik" <mohib_balichai@yahoo.com> wrote:

What about  CAM SOUR  for  DHAMKI

*****************************




Dear Mohib:

Thanks for your effort in research of Balochi words.
We say "horrey horrey kaasagi porrey". If all friends try to find out and revive Balochi words we can help researchers of Balochi dictionary to add missing words in their list. Sayad Zahoor Shah has done a Herculian work in compiling Sayad Ganj in his life time but still there is need of updating that dictionary with more words and meanings.
Thanks.
Ameeri

[Zahida Raees Raji]

ismail amiri <ismail_amiri@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Dear Naako and friends,

The main meaning of the word 'echo' is being discussed here is :reflection and repitition of a sound from a mountain a wall or inside an enclosed space.Gwaankou
(Gwaank+Kouh)is correct for the reflection of a sound from a mountain but what about a wall or an enclosed space.

To find the right word we have to keep in mind all the different meanings and the usage of the term.

I think reflection of a sound in Balochi is 'Padgwaank'.What do you think?

shomai kaster

Ismail
****************************
Sheh Mureed <sahemureed@yahoo.ca> wrote:

Dear Ismail Ameeri
 
Salaam
 
Dear Ismail the word as you said Gwaank- Kouh . is not correct ; the correct word is Gwaankoo " Bizan Gwaank  "Kanook. the appropriate word for Echo is Passo or Gwaankoo. you have suggested "pad Gaank".pad gwaank mean if some body call and after some time another one  repeat the same call that is Pad Gwaank. in olden days people used to call for   "Hashar " for bulding a house or "RajKaari" for "Kahan" (Kareez). regards.
 
Sahe Mureed
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Dear Sheh Murid and Ismail Amiri:

Thanks for your suggestions. This is an interesting subject.

With the game of words we can find different meanings and usage of Balochi words.

Thanks.

Ameeri

[Zahida Raees Raji]

Garboni <wgarboni@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

‘Cam-sohr or Chamsohr dayag’ means to ‘intimidate or scare’ someone.  This is generally done by the superior/s

Regards

Garboni
*******************************


noutak baloch <ameerism@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Dear Walid:
Thanks.

Ameeri
*********************************



GHULAMMOHHAMED LALZAD <gmlalzad@yahoo.com> wrote:

Waja Ameeri,salaam.

Drwahbaat-e

 You have started a very good discussion on Balochi words,it will help the revival of old Balochi words.Till 2years back when I was working with Balochi unit of All India Radio, I used to translate the word "hunger strike" as: 'Na warag-e Ghau' or 'na warag-e eteraz'. In Sistan area of Afghanistan we use the word "Ghau" for protest or strike.The word has another meaning also.

-For echo or reflection of sound,we have "Karodag",{reflection of sound in a well or river bank.

-The word "Tazahurat", in persian, is the meaning of the word "demonstration" and for protest, the persian word is: Eteraaz or Ehtejaaj.
   
Shomay kaster  

Dr. Lalzad.

[Zahida Raees Raji]

Dear Ulus Pahrai and Dr Lalzad:

I am very much pleased to see that our scholars are coming forward and participating in this interesting discussion for the revival of Balochi words. We were only few in the beginning and now Dr Badal Khan, Wj Abumorad, Ulus Pahrai and Dr Lalzad joined our group which is a great success for us.

I have a good news for you that I met Dr Abdul Razaq Sabir Head of Balochistan Studies Center of Balochistan University, Quetta yesterday on his way to attend the Uppsala University Symposium in Sweden. He informed me that they have formed a center for research  of Balochi vocabulary. I suggested him to link their work with balochi_culture group's efforts in this field.  

Thanks.

Ameeri

[Zahida Raees Raji]

Some good Balochi words which are not founded in Sayad Ganj.

Waanag (noun) is a large flat-round stone on which things could be grained with an egg shaped stone ‘moshtok’.

 
Tahrouz kanag (verb) protest, to make someone (normally a close one such as a friend, relative or associate) realise something.

Regards

Garboni

Dear Walid:

In another mail I agreed with your suggestion to use 'waraakbandi' for huger strike
but 'shodkoshi' also is not bad.

Ameeri

[Zahida Raees Raji]

Garboni <wgarboni@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

it should be shodkashshi not shodkoshi

Dear Walid: What about using both.

First one for hunger strike and the second for huger strike until death.
Ameeri

[Zahida Raees Raji]

ulus pahrai <ulus_pahrai@yahoo.com> wrote:
Need help !
 
Where did the word (staan) come from to our language, and when?
With (staan) I  mean for example, Arabistaan, Hindustaan, Balochistan, Afghanistaan and so on..
 
Is (staan) Arabic or Hindi?
If we´ll go back in history, where do we see the word (staan)?
 
Regards – ulus pahrai

Dear Ulus Pahrai: Suffix 'stan' in Old Persian and Avesta means place Pahlavi
staan, Armani stan Old Hindi sthaana from the root staa in Avesta and Old Persian means stand

source (Borhaane Qaate')

Ameeri

[Zahida Raees Raji]

Dear Sheh Mureed: Zendag baatay !
  I read your question about the meaning of a word 'drunk' in a political discussion.
  I reply on that separately.
  Drunk or intoxicated means in Balochi 'mast'. "mast a raa do ciz eyr kaarit,
  tahaaroukeyn shap o direyn raah"
  Caar': hobb, hodonaaki, beykesaaseyn dousti, beysaari, geyg, pa caar' bayag, .....
  caar'aan zortag (Sayad Ganj)
  Gham hayaaley o aasheqi caar'ey (Fazol)
  Sheh Mureed waareyn kapta maan nilbueyn zer a,
  waartagi bang o geptagat caar'aan maan saraa
  caar': nesha, bey saari, kayf, masti, bey tahanboli
  caar' also means mood in English
  Balochi is a rich language we can find many meanings and usage for a word.
  Thanks.
  Yours sincerely,
  Ameeri
   

[Zahida Raees Raji]

Koulmir Namiran <koulmir@yahoo.com> wrote:

Cha diwaana dastbandi ent ke cheyraa daatageyn lahtey Balochi gaalane dargataa rahshouni bekanet.
   
  1-chair; korsi= CHAWKI
   
  2-buidling= MAAR'I
   
  3.to strike; ehtesaab ya har'taal kanag = LAH JANAG
   
  4-spy; jasoos= HABAR-CHEYN; RAAZ CHEYN
   
  5- intellegence= RAAZ-JAAH
   
  7-court= DAAD-GAAH
   
  8-judge= DAAD-RAS
   
  9-lawyer= WAKIL
   
  10- worker= HEZMAT-KAAR
   
   
   
  mennatwaar
  koulmir
********************

noutak baloch <ameerism@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

  1- chair; korsi
  2- building= maar'i, fort= kout', kalaat (she'r e tahaa kout' o maar'i hour kaayant)
  3- strike= kaarbandi, har'taal (ca Hindi a badal zortag)
  4- spy= caarig, informer= habarbarouk, habarcen
  5- intelligence= caarigi, intelligence service= caarigi edaara
  6- court= daadgaah
  7- judge= qaazi
  8- lawyer= wakil
  9- worker= kaargar
  10- porter= hammaal, darwaazapaan
  11- labourer= a'mala, mozzur
  12- gate-keeper= darwaazapaan
   
  Ameeri

*************


Koulmir Namiran <koulmir@yahoo.com> wrote:
  Wj. Ameeri,
  shomay rahshouniyaani mennatwaaran.
  Estemaal= kaarbandi!
  worker= kaargar, kaarkon!
  korsi= chawki (cha marri daptawaara)
   
  Eshaani barowaa souj beday, mehrabani
   
  koulmir
 

************
Este'maal= kaarmarz
  worker= kaargar
  korsi= couki (Marriyaan wati Kabul e nendag e daoraan a
  ca Farsi Dari a zortag)
  cawkidaar= ngahbaan, paasbaan, paaspaan (night watchman)
  paaspaan= nonnok e peyshaanig a syaaheyn t'kkey cenant yaa nilleyn rangey moshant daanke aa ca jennaan   nonnok e paank a bejant yaa kasey aahi a nezar makant.

  Ameeri

[Zahida Raees Raji]

Waajah Kaarmaster
 
PTV Bolan
 
Mani mar'ahdaareyn Waajah:

Shomay barnaamah baaz sharrant balay gwashant sharr a bey
a'yb a nabit.  Waajah Abdul Hakeem jaan e dorreyn goptaar va
aahi e e'lm o zaant maaraa sakk doust bayant. Hamey she'raan
ke shomaa sheng kanet ham baaz wash ant.
Yak gappey e neymag a shomay delgoush a gwar kanaan ke yak
goshendahey baraey barey yak she'rey alhaan kant aahi e perbandouk a nazaanaan balay aahi ey gaal janeyn aadam e shaan e xelaaf ent:
 
"tao mayaari na bay, tao mayaari kanay"
 
baayed ent ey gaal ey rang a tarreynag bebit
 
"tao mayaaraan nazirey, tao mayaari kanay"
 
Balochi sakk naazorkeyn zobaan eyt. Baayed ent may warnaaheyn shaae'r o goshendah wati she'raan ca sheng kanag
a peysh Waajah Abdul Hakeem e paymeyn zobaan zaant o kawaasey a pesh bedaarant rand a aahaan sheng bekanant.
 
Dega gappey telefun e saraa pittaari eyg ent.
Lahtey mazhabi warnaa yak draajeyn nebeshtageyn xotbaey deymaa kanant o aahi a telefun e saraa pa shomaa waanant.
Ey rang a aa caaroukaani wahd a zyaan kanant o aahaan sakk
shezaar o beyzaar (bore) kanant. Aa dega tawaarjanouk aan(callers) mouh nadayant o aahaani haqq a janant. Wa'z o pant o nasihat e jaah masit a ent TV nahaent. Ey rangeyn naasarpadaani
tawaar baayad ent band kanag bebit o aahaan gwashag bebit ke
wati draajeyn gappaan kaagad e saraa nebeshtag bekanant o pa
TV a deym bedayant. Aa wahdi shomaa tounet gecetageyn gappaan hamincok ke shomay wahd ejaaza dant sheng kanet o beypakaareyn kaagadaani jaah  kecrah e kapeyr (dustbin) a ent.
Man zaanaan mani ey gapp pittaaraan wash nabayant.
Man a pahel kanet ke marci man ham goun shomaa baaz pittaari
kotag. Shomay zahmataani mennatwaar aan. Ca mani neymag a
Hakeem jaan va shomay draaheyn hamkaaraan salaam !
Shomay hayr lout'ouk,
Saeed Baloch
Dubai (Emarat)
 
Souj:
Goun Quetta e waanoukaan dazbandi kanaan ke ey kaagad e
printout a bekashant o pa PTV Bolan a deym bedayant ke man
torsaan  balkeyn mani kaagad baazeyn kaagadaani tahaa gaar o beygwaah mabit o tippok ey (whirlwind) aahi a baal madant.
 
 

[بلوچ]

Sheh Mureed <sahemureed@yahoo. ca> wrote:

Waja Ameeri and Dear all
 
Salaam.
 
 I will be gratefull if some one can help me for  right   Balochi word for   Resistance Movement : Muzaahemati Tahreek.
 
Regards.
 
Sahe Mureed

Dear Sheh Mureed:
 
Resistance: deympaani
Resistence movement: deympaani zrombesh
 
Ameeri

[Zahida Raees Raji]

shastuni baloch <shastuni@googlemail .com> wrote:
To: Wj Koulmir and friends,

I have a personal advise about the Balochi name of your website, Gedrosia.

If you search for the name گدروشیا , you cannot find much with this spelling, but if you spell it with س like گدروسیا , pronouncing with the sound S rather than SH, or ز like گدروزیا , i.e. with the sound Z, you can find more references.

I personally think that گدروزیا is the best pronunciation, but گدروسیا is also acceptable. I believe that گدروشیا is not the original pronunciation, although it is the way that pronounced in English.

For comparison, you may think of 'Asia', pronounced with SH in English and in Urdu, but we have a girl's name in Balochi 'Asia' only with S sound, not with SH. I think that Urdu's influence in Balochi is detrimental and we really need to distance Balochi from Urdu to preserve it better. There are obviously influences from Persian, Arabic and other languages, but Urdu has a very peculiar script and pronunciation that we must be aware of using it. Otherwise, we may import Urdu's difficulties in our Balochi language, whilst we still have a lot of problems of our own.

Goun neyken waahagaan,

Shastuni

----------------


Dear Shastuni,
Thank you for the information. I did do a google search using your instructions. All I got were persian distorted news and information. English is real thing. All the real are in "Gedrosia" which is in roman/english. you may pronounce it like persians and Arbas I /someone else pronounce it like Pakistanis and Indians. Originally it is "Gedrosia" and if you do a seach using english alphabets you will get a lot about it.
However, I admire your observation and thank you for giving the information that now-a-days you could search in seach engines using arabic script.
Regards
Koulmir
-------------

Che Mureed <hat21@yahoo. com> wrote:
Salaam All,
I believe the Baluch civilisation is approximately 10,000 years old. Their origin believed to be in central Asia. Baluch existed long before the arrival of Alexandra the great (Greek). Alexandra faced a fierce resistance from the ASKAHNI Baluch (to known as Ashqani). Alexandra describes in his memoirs, He writes the tribes man would fire arrows as approaching his army and soon as it passed its arm they would turn their body opposite to direction of the horse and fire more arrows. Alexandra on his return journey Alexandra tried to avoid the ASKHANI, this led him to the route via ANGLACH. He camped in the ANGLACH river; during the night ANGLACH river came and half of Alexandra army drowned and he lost is pavilion.
Makuran in those days was known as GERD-O-SIA.
Gerd in Baluchi mean dust whirling wind.
SIA mean black.
O means with and AND. ( For example Faqir –O- Saleem, meaing Faqir and Saleem)
In short it means a place where lost of tornado type of wind. Naturally the Greek pronounced it as Gerdosia. It is not a name given by Greek. The Greek only used the name and pronounced as they could.Che.

----------------------

On 19/03/2008, Koulmir Namiran <koulmir@yahoo. com> wrote:
Dear Che,
Your poit is convincing. I agree with you that GERD means ROUND and SIAH means Black. However your point is not backed by any reference. If you have any then plz reffer us to so we can argue it further.
In the MAPS of Alexandar the Great there is the mention of PURA which is PAHRA (today's Iranshahr). Obviously people of the area had a name for the region. Your points in this regard are valid.
Regards

[Zahida Raees Raji]

To attention of Wj Koulmir

Gedrsia = گدروزيا = گدروسيا = Γεδρωσία

As mentioned earlier, the English spelling of 'Gedrosia' is fine, but its actual pronunciation is NOT 'sh' as you write it گدروشیا . The Urdu version is not close to original Greek at all. I have checked it with a teaching colleague of mine. Although we may not have an actual letter in Balochi or Persian, its pronunciation is closer to either S or Z sound, i.e. the actual letter in Greek is Sigma/ Zigma, pronounced between S and Z, but definitely not SH. The actual Greek script is (Γεδρωσία).
Although many Baloch, especially in Eastern part of Balochistan, now under Pakistani control, may pronounce some words like other Pakistanis -under Urdu influence- it is not a strong reason at all that the Baloch writers simply accept it. I still believe that Urdu, as a mixed 'so-fi-sad' language has a very detrimental effect on Balochi. If we want to preserve and develop Balochi, we need to be vigilant about this factor. Otherwise our 'shahdeyn' Balochi becomes just another accent of the 'so-fi-sad' Urdu. It has already being happening in the spoken language of the young Baloch, especially in Lyari and some other parts of Pakistani controlled Balochistan. I do agree with Naako Ameeri that we rather borrow words from Persian, but not from Urdu if possible.
Although as an independent Baloch with no political affiliation, I am not in agreement with your political views, I believe that Balochi language and culture is a phenomenon which is shared among every Baloch, regardless of locality, accent, religion, politics and social background.
Finally, I suggest that it would be more appropriate if you write گدروسيا or گدروزيا in your Balochi/ Persian script. Either are more accurate than گدروشيا. I do hope that you are convinced to drop the 'sh' sound in its Balochi script. In my view, گدروزيا is the nearest possible Balochi spelling, although گدروسيا is also a close version of the name. You may choose one, but not گدروشيا at all.
For more information please also see the following links:

http://www.chlt. org/sandbox/ perseus/harper/ page.4646. a.php

http://www.omniglot .com/writing/ greek.htm

Goun neyken waahagaan,

Shastuni
Koulmir Namiran <koulmir@yahoo. com> wrote:
Dear Shastuni,
I had a look at the references that you linked and some of my own. It stays confusing. when we compare it with other enteries of Alexandar the Great. Like Persia it self. However if we try to make sense of the name and the area as described by him being "dried mountian and deserts" it is likely that this word is driven from the local language. Could be like Gard-o- Siah as mentioned by Che. Gard e Sia (black dust) or Siah Gwat.
Attaching our language to any other will not be a good idea, however, we can pick and choose. dapbouj=breakfast from english, Gaari=vehicle from hindhi, Sad=hundred of our own.
If we go back on GEDROSIA. I technically agree with you that 's' is 's', but when we reach historical things we must be careful. I continue to look for more, while getting great amount of feed from you.
Thanks
Koulmir

--------------------
noutak baloch <ameerism@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:
Koulmir jaan: 'Dapbouj' a gon Engreyzi e breakfast a
hecc syaadi neyst. Aga kasey roucag ent aa rouc e
barkat bayag a rand dap a boujit yaa dapbouj kant.
Brekfast naahaari a gwashant.

Ameeri
------------------

Koulmir Namiran <koulmir@yahoo. com> wrote:
Wj. Ameeri,
In my opinion NAAHAARI is an adjective that means emptiness of the stomach. Sayad Zahur Shah uses word 'anwaawaari' for this. We say: Aayi naahaar cha edaa shot, naahaariyaa dar kapag shar nahent. Meaning he went without eating anything empliness of stomach is not good. Dapbouj is for breaking past. In Ramazaan people have their dapbouj at magrib time, while in other days in the morning.
I think Dapbouj is more literary than nahaari. Surely our people ate dapbouj/breakfast before Islam and they carried the same word instead of Aftaar.
I agree that some people say -including our own area- 'naahaari' for breakpast. some use Ragband, some say chasht while others use Haraz-band and in Pakistan they use hindi Nashta, but I understand Dapbouj is best.
Regards
Koulmir
------------------

Dear Koulmir: Sayad wrote 'naahaar' for empty stomach. Aahaar food naahaar without food. Naahaar and anaawaar have same meanings. Naahaari, ragband and harazband are used for breakfast and dapbouj as you have mentioned is for breaking the fast at sunset (maghreb). Naahaari is used for sobaareg (lunch) in Kech. Seria is right ragband is used for breakfast in Ahorraan and Gyaabaan.

Ameeri

Dear all
 
I would like to make a comment that in whole region of Panjgoor, we use the word "Dapbouj" as well breaking the fast.
 
I have searched and found into "Sayad Ganj", Sayad Hashmi, which is the first Balochi dictionary. The meaning of "Dapbouj" on page # 421 translates to - breaking the fast after sun down.
 
Regards
Aziz

[Zahida Raees Raji]

From:  Sheh Mureed
To: balochi_culture@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wed, February 24, 2010 2:44:14 PM
Subject: [balochi_culture] Balochi Word

 Dear  All
 
Can any one help me  the balochi word for (PLANET) I could not fined it in sayed ganj.
 
 
Regards.
 
Mureed

---------------------------
From:  Fatema Al-Balooshi
To: balochi_culture@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wed, 24 February, 2010 12:09:51
Subject: Re: [balochi_culture] Balochi Word



How about (SITARAAH), or (KUKAB)
 
Fatema

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From:   
Che Mureed
To:   balochi_culture@yahoogroups.com   
 

I like the word KUKAB
--------------------------------------